Minutes of Cross Party Group on Mental Health
27th October 2022
12.00 – 13.00
Virtual - Teams
In attendance:
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1. Welcome and Introduction
Simon Jones (SJ) welcomed everyone to the meeting and explained this would also be the AGM so there was a need to undertake that process first.
SJ nominated Ken Skates MS (KS) as Chair of the group, which was seconded by Tom Giffard MS (TG). Ken Skates elected as Chair
KS nominated Mind Cyrmu as secretariat, which was seconded by TG. Mind Cymru appointed as secretariat
KS welcomed everyone to the meeting and particularly Conor D’Arcy (CD) from the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute who would be presenting today.
2. Conor Darcy, Head of Research & Policy, Money and Mental Health Policy Institute
CD thanked KS for the opportunity to present and started by highlighting how poor mental health and financial hardship are a vicious circle. There is considerable evidence that people are making fundamental changes to their lives at the moment, cutting back on the things that would make them feel well and also struggling basics, such as the cost of transport to appointments. CD highlighted that Wales has a forty percentage point gap in employment between those identifying as having a mental health problem and those without. Also, 28% of people economically inactive in Wales have a mental health problem. This makes Wales particularly vulnerable to economic changes which impact hugely on people with poor mental health. Full presentation attached.
3. Discussion
KS asked whether the statistics on economic activity are similar to other regions in the UK. CD stated that you see a broad pattern in areas where there is lower employment of poorer mental health outcomes.
Linsey Imms (LI) highlighted that Unions are good starting points to find out how organisations support people with poor mental health and are working to improve the way people are supported in the workplace
Sue O’Leary (SO’L) asked whether CD knew of any particular examples of good practice Wales could consider. CD indicated that there is a pilot at very early stages in London looking at embedding money advice in mental health services (linked to IAPT), which is looking at providing greater signposting to support in recognition that people may struggle to engage with money advice services. Barriers to support need to be addressed, alongside having a variety of ways to access support. Joining up mental health aftercare with financial support and advice particularly crucial. Euan Hails (EU) asked about the outcomes from the pilot. CD stated whilst it is too early to draw any firm conclusions the evidence available does indicate that people do recover quicker is finances are in place. There should be more information available from GP surgeries about practical ways in which your mental health can impact on your finances and where you can go for support.
Val Billingham (VB) asked about financial support for people later in life. CD responded that the topics of the Institutes next reports would be looking at these issues, including pensions. Financial support can often be less available. Whilst online support can be a positive, older people are less likely to be digitally aware and this could leave them being locked out of support. Scams are also an issue with people experiencing poor mental health more likely to be a victim.
Laura Morgan (LM) highlighted the Mental Health and Money service delivered by Adferiad and she will ask for stats from the service in order to share with members of the group. In her experience services are often in place but there is a need to upskill people in what else is available to support people. The service offered by Adferiad has a package of training for professionals. LM also highlighted the importance of peer support in developing employability skills. CD used as an example that people were particularly uncomfortable sharing their mental health experiences with energy companies, so did not always get the support they would be entitled to. There is a need to design services with the users in mind more, particularly those experiencing specific mental health conditions.
Nia Evans (NE) asked what work had been undertaken on the impact of financial stress on young people as individuals and as a member of the wider family. CD stated that most of their work focussed on adult experiences, but children and young people often came up. This was mostly around people prioritising their children at their worn expense and the increased pressure on families. There is a need for greater financial literacy so that young people starting out in life have the knowledge and skills to be able to make good financial decisions and so avoid debt.
Angie Darlington (AD) said that whilst awareness around prevention was important, people were living in fear. Distress caused by bailiffs and debt collection was common, with the ramping up of fines leading to people becoming too afraid to open letters. CD acknowledged that some of the toughest stories they hear are around debt collection, some of which tragically lead to someone taking their life or making an attempt to. The Enforcement Conduct Board is non-statutory and there is a need to strengthen this aspect. Citizens Advice have guidance for local authorities on how they can manage debts
Ellie Harwood (EH) highlighted that mental health weaves into almost all the work the Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) do. There is a double stigma to tackling that relates to both poverty and mental health. Responding to NE’s question, young people are acutely aware of what is happening to their families financially. The impact this can have on their participation in activities at school or in their community is significant. Sioned Williams MS’ Bill on ensuring benefits are taken up in Wales provides an opportunity to improve the situation and utilise our knowledge around what helps people access support.
KS added that we should never underestimate the impact of shame or experiencing bailiffs knocking on the door. KS asked CD what engagement he has had with Welsh Government. CD pointed out that the Institute team is quite small so capacity is an issue, but have had some contact. KS asked CD to sum up what he felt the most important areas to address should be. CD pointed to joining up money advice and mental health services is very important and there are opportunities to do more within employment services.
4. Next Steps
KS thanked CD and all members for their contribution. KS would work with SJ to look at options for bringing this issue and the views heard today to the floor of the Senedd.
KS finished by adding that Richard Parks was keen to come to a meeting in the new year to talk about his mental health experiences.